May 23, 2003
G.F. Debetz on Eyelid Form
Debets G.F. ,Anthropological Investigations in Daghestan, in Contributions to the Physical Anthropology of the Soviet Union, p. 87:
"Eyelid Form
This feature, which is so important for the differentiation of Europeoid from Mongoloid types, did not reveal any differences among Caucasian [Caucasian means from Caucasus, not 'Caucasoid'] nationalities. Observations of Georgian anthropologists showed certain distinctions of Caucasians from Russians: in the latter the eyefold was somewhat larger, the eye slit somewhat narrower and the position of the orbit a little more inclined. However, it is doubtful if one can consider these characters as being posessed by all Northern Europeoids. The results obtained by the Baltic Expedition, in which the author participated, showed that the Lithuanians, for example, do not disclose any difference from the Caucasians in regard to eyelid structure. In all probability, the distinctions of Russians from Caucasians should not be explained by the fact that the eyelid structure of Northern Europeans is different from that of Southern Europeans, but by the fact that the Russians absorbed elements which are characterized by some Mongoloid traits."
Caricature of Boris Yeltsin emphasizing tilted outer rim. Yeltsin is of Baltic type with a slight Mongoloid admixture.
Again, extremely lame, especially the Yeltsin carricature.
In all probability, the distinctions of Russians from Caucasians should not be explained by the fact that the eyelid structure of Northern Europeans is different from that of Southern Europeans, but by the fact that the Russians absorbed elements which are characterized by some Mongoloid traits.
Several things.
1. The term "mongoloid traits" is extremely ambiguous-Bruenns have low rooted noses and high cheekbones, which are Mongoloid traits, yet do not show any traces of Mongoloid admixture.
2. Eyefolds are often found in Britons and other Northern Europeans:
"... If our palжolithic race were really the ancestors of the Eskimos, or at least their near relations, ... it is at least possible that they may have left descendants behind them to mingle their blood with the neolithic races and their descendants of to-day. Now I think some reason can be shown for suspecting the existence of some Mongoloid race in the modern population of Wales and the West of England.
Their most notable indication is the oblique or Chinese eye, with its external angle in a horizontal plane a little higher than the internal one ... I have notes of 34 persons with oblique eyes."
from: The Races of Britain by John Beddoe, Chapter II, paragraphs 1 and 2.
3. Genetically, Russians show less Mongoloid admixture than do Lithuanians.
4. Vepses (a Finno-Ugric people) have less eyefolds than any of the aformentioned.
5. The frequency of eyefolds among Russians is actually quite low- 0.1 percent.
Caricature of Boris Yeltsin emphasizing tilted outer rim. Yeltsin is of Baltic type with a slight Mongoloid admixture.
LOL, that's a gem-you do know that Yeltsin is an alcholic, and that alcoholism swells people's cheeks and eyelids?
Posted by: Prodigal Son at May 23, 2003 05:22 PM>> The term "mongoloid traits" is extremely ambiguous-Bruenns have low rooted noses and high cheekbones, which are Mongoloid traits, yet do not show any traces of Mongoloid admixture.
Coon's Bruenn type is an Upper Paleolithic European. If Debets meant traits that are found in Europeans, he could name them. Rather, he said that these traits are Mongoloid. Russian anthropologists made a big effort to distinguish between the Europeoid and Mongoloid types and would not call Mongoloid that which is found in pure Europeans.
>> 2. Eyefolds are often found in Britons and other Northern Europeans:
External and median eyefolds are. These are not indicative of Mongoloid admixture.
>> 5. The frequency of eyefolds among Russians is actually quite low- 0.1 percent.
I think you mean frequency of epicanthus.
>> LOL, that's a gem-you do know that Yeltsin is an alcholic, and that alcoholism swells people's cheeks and eyelids?
But it does not (as far as I know) tilt the outer corners of their orbits.
Posted by: Dienekes at May 23, 2003 05:34 PMRather, he said that these traits are Mongoloid.
They are Mongoloid traits, because they most characterize the Mongoloid race. It does not mean that everyone who has them has Mongoloid ancestry.
Russian anthropologists made a big effort to distinguish between the Europeoid and Mongoloid types and would not call Mongoloid that which is found in pure Europeans.
What?
If Debetz meant "Russians have phenotype altering Mongoloid admixture" he would have said so outright. Rather he said, "absorbed elements which are characterized by some Mongoloid traits."
Posted by: Prodigal Son at May 23, 2003 07:58 PM
>External and median eyefolds are. These are not >indicative of Mongoloid admixture.
Thank you again, Dienekes. In other words, the difference between Russians and Caucasians is in presence of 0.2% of (minor) epicanthic eyefolds in females of the Volga-Kama region :D
Posted by: EGR at May 26, 2003 02:17 AMProdigal Son claims, "LOL, that's a gem-you do know that Yeltsin is an alcholic, and that alcoholism swells people's cheeks and eyelids?"
Yeltsin is a Mongoloid, like you and some other Russians. Swedes, Norwegians, Germans and Greeks are White.
The thought of Russian immigrants like you in Sweden makes me shiver. You people are leeches.
The Greeks, however, are productive.
Posted by: Tronder Nationalist at November 21, 2003 07:33 PMWhat are you tronder? part of the KKK? I'm everything from swedish to Arab. I have 16 nationalites all together and I'm damn proud of it!
Posted by: Mixed up at April 3, 2004 10:35 PM