From the article: ""It's a very bad situation, they are violating our human rights," says Mohammed Ashad, a Pakistani immigrant who has lived in Greece for six years. "We must have a right to practise our religion and it must be in a proper mosque.""

How about free worship for all religions in Muslim countries? Muslims can freely practise their religion all over Europe: the same can´t be said about Christians in the muslim world!
And it is revolting Saudi Arabia goes about founding every other mosque in the West, while it is illegal to build a christian church in their country!
I think the Saudis (and other countries) should be forbidden to do so until they relax their strict laws (which may be never for all we know!).

"Athens is the only capital in the European Union without a mosque," Foreign Minister George Papandreou admitted in a recent statement.

I dont know where you political preferances lie Dienekes, but notice what this man said.

He is the most traitorous of our politicians and always stand first on issues against Greece...

Pay attention to what i am telling you.

No Mosque should ever be built on GReek soil.

And if it is built, then who knows what will happen.

If the few immigrant Muslims living in Greece are sooo religious then they should pray to Allah outside of churches and mosques for if they are really religious they can find Allah everywhere..

I deeply respect all religions, Islam included. But I agree that Greece should exercise extreme caution in considering whether or not to allow a mosque to be built within its boundaries. The reason is that the left, who constantly push this stuff on everyone all the time, don't know when to stop. They're like a guest in your home who is too boorish to know how to respect your hospitality and eats you out of house and home or something. You give the left an inch and they take a mile. Let them build a mosque on Greek soil -- just one -- and I'm afraid you'll live to regret it and future generations of Greeks will curse your stupidity, because before you know it they'll be manoeuvering for the first of many steps leading to the ultimate extinction of Greece, of Greek culture, of Greek ethnicity, indeed of every last vestige and trace of the Greek nation. Any doubters, just look at what they've done elsewhere in Europe and all over North America.

Yes, leftists, look in the mirror. This is YOU.

Athens is the only Euro capital without a mosque. How many Arab capitals are without churches?

Screw the Saudi-hate religion.

David

Maybe thats no serious problem for Europe or Greece if there is a mosque in Athens, but its typical for the situaion of Europeans.
They have to tolerate all, they loose their culture and cohesion, they are under the rule of a selfish and corrupt "elite" and they have to tolerate all from primitive shamans of the Negroes too intolerant Wahhabits from Arab countries which promote terrorism all over the world.
They have to respect any shit which any small group belief but not their own heritage.
Christians, not to speak about Hindus and Pars are not really tolerated in many islamic countries, especially in the mad Saudi Wahhabit state.
They keep their intolerance and send there surplus population segments to Europe and US.
They even try to convert other people all over the world, partly with violance, but on the other hand they dont even want to let christians practice their religion.
Thats absurd! Only superficial "neo-pseudo-christian" people which believe in liberalism and tolerance no care what it will produce can say thats good.

What the hell are you morons talking about, I my self am a Greek, and I recently converted to Islam. And no! I have never known a Muslim, nor have I ever been In a Moueqk. I learned about it in books as I got my PHD in Greek Philosophy. You all seem to have a phobia about Muslims yet you seem to forget what they have done for Europe. The reason why Greeks retain so much of there Racal identity happen be because of Muslims. If some other grope had invaded Greece like the huns did to Finland or Central Asia there would be no more Greece, we would all be considered Serb or Russian or some other South American anomaly of a race. So pleas take your religion hating somewhere else. I my self am not a raciest, but I do like the fact that Islam has and always and will always bring stability to civilized nations instead of civilized abomination. The Fears you Islamfobes have comes down to propaganda by the Social elites, who preserve there power by immoral means of Alcohol, drugs, killing, and prostitution. You retarded Greeks or whoever most like lee look up to America a country that installed a military dictatorship in Greece between 1967 and 1974. Well pleas do not blame me when I say, I rather see Greece Islamic poor and dignified, instead of Jizz whole for Americans on their Vacations here prostituting our women while using our economy as slave labor for Americans big refrigerators and theme parks. In the end all we have is our identity and dignity; if it is anything that will save us form the future --- it will be these two qualities!

Aeneas you are not a Greek and of course don't have a "Ph.D. in Greek philosophy". Don't pretend to be a Greek. You are most likely a confused person, like most people who decide to convert to a religion like Islam.

Well Donkeys thank you for telling me what I am, and what I am not. I wonder how insight full you are --- to figure I am not Greek and confused. Well Smart guy I wonder what inspired you to insult me. Dose me being Greek and Muslim really frighten you βλάκαs?

I do not think Aeneas is Greek. Greece does not get much American tourism but it does get alot of tourism from Britain, Germany and other affluent Western European nations. So where does this comment come from:

Aeneas>>:"You retarded Greeks or whoever most like lee look up to America a country that installed a military dictatorship in Greece between 1967 and 1974. Well pleas do not blame me when I say, I rather see Greece Islamic poor and dignified, instead of Jizz whole for Americans on their Vacations here prostituting our women while using our economy as slave labor for Americans big refrigerators and theme parks."

To say that people in Greece look up to the United States is out of touch. If you are so Greek how come you do not know Greece gets very few American tourists and has to be the country in the EU where the people are the most "anti-American"(very much against American foreign policy). The muslims, especially the Turks screwed over the Greeks and have done nothing but shrink Hellenism, and certainly have done nothing to help Greeks preserve their identity.

>> Well Donkeys thank you for telling me what I am, and what I am not. I wonder how insight full you are --- to figure I am not Greek and confused. Well Smart guy I wonder what inspired you to insult me. Dose me being Greek and Muslim really frighten you βλάκαs?

At most you might have some Greek ancestry, but obviously you have no Greek culture, since being Greek is not very compatible with being Muslim.

In my opinion many Turks are just arabized/islamized Greeks. A Greek which converts to Islam is nothing else but a traitor.
Islam is/was not just negative in the history of mankind, but this religion destroyed more than it did produce and there is no reason why it should be something different in the future.
All cultural and other achievements in Islamic countries were produced even under and not because of Islam.
All states which are strictly Islamic are just retarded and unable to develop themselves or think about the world from an objective point of view.
They just copied some Hellenistic/Roman literature and worked with it, and if in an Islamic country were achieved great things, than just because these states were no real strict religious ones. Like in Spain etc.
But in states like Saudi Arabia, Jemen etc most of the people are primarily superstitious.
strict Islam = incompatible with a modern and progressive society
In its extreme Islam produces barbarious societies like these of the Taliban in Afghanisthan.
These great Pashtun people with their old history lived like animals unable to think about problems rational and catched in a superstitious nightmare under the rule of the Taliban. They destroyed there own heritage and lived in a hell on earth just because some think that there is an absurd hell on the other side.
No thanks!

Just because some rules were good about hundreds of years ago this doesnt mean that its good to do the same even under completely changed conditions.
Thats the main problem of religious moral. This doesnt have to mean that this moral is worthless but Arabia 1400 years ago was something different than the whole world of the 21st century. Rules should be made from a utilitaristic point of view and backed up by science. Do the right thinks for mankind and for the whole ecological system no matter what some one said some hundred years ago.
Just because some people said they got their message from god doesnt have to mean that they are more right. It maybe just means that these people got mental problems.
The only way to act like god would want it is to understand the system of life and act logical.
Becasue if there is a god he obviously doesnt speak to us, so the best way is to do the right think for mankind and this world no matter if there is one or not.
If there is one he would appreciate this much more than superstitous puppets which just repeat what some said without modern knowledge in a specific region/time/context hundreds and thousands of years ago.
Especially if some just use this words to gain power.

Dear Dienekes and Chris
You Both seem to think Greek Christianity is the only Greek Culture. Well lest I should
remind The only Greek works to have survived the test of time were those that were accepted in to Islam. “Neoplatonism during the Byzantine period include Syrianus, the teacher of Proclus, Damascius, Proclus' pupil, Simplicius and Philoponus. All those philosophers or commentators were known to the Arabs and some of their writings, sometimes lost in Greek, were translated into Arabic.” Lets not fool our self’s into thinking that Greek philosophy was preserved in the west, Duval, R. (1970) La littérature Syriaque states In 529 ad the Byzantine Emperor Justinian ordered the school of Athens, to be closed. Of the Greek schools of thought to survive only seven teachers --- of those Syrianus and Damascius, emigrated to Persia. While others spread to Baghdad and Egypt. One School in Particular Jundishapur survived to spread it’s literal meaning from Ancient Greek into Arabic(not modern-day Greek). In Madkour, I. (1969) L'Organon d'Aristote au monde arabe (The Organon of Aristotle in the Arab World), Paris States Abu'l-Nasr Al-Farabi, a Muslim of Persian descent who studied in Baghdad, was measured to be the supreme philosopher since Aristotle. In the Islamic world he was known as the "Second Teacher," with Aristotle being the first. Greek Culture only survives in Islam. If you so wish I can provide you with so much more if you so wish to continue with this argument.
If you people wish to know the Truth permit me to argue the Question with you, but if you wish to keep what ever views you have Then there is not left to say.
My resources are given at the bottom along with some further reading, if you wish to care. I hope you know The word philosophy is an Arabic word meaning Truth, which applies to all the sciences. If you read Plato’s works on Socrates you will find its definition in complete harmonization in what ever Socrates says in his dialogs. I just hope you are trying to look for the truth, because taking sides over some mythical division that divides East from West then you really should not be participating in an argument that wishes to find out the truth. Without Islam and it’s pursuit of knowledge, all Scholars agree there would be no more Greek thought. Arabic as a language as well as the last surviving Islamic Scholars all preserve what was left of Greco/Islamic philosophy, This is as view is unpopular among modern day Scholars because it involves the religion, but they all virtually accepted by all as being correct.

Dear
Dienekes I wish to apologize for calling you a donkey, I was out of line and completely in the wrong. I wish you can forgive me, and I hopefully we will come to a better understanding of each other in the future. I was alienated from my family because they are vary prominent in Greece so pleas excuse me when I become a little defensive, I am a devout Muslim, and I often become vary cynical when people bring up my beliefs, as my students often do.

.

Badawi, A.-R. (1987) La transmission de la philosophie grecque au monde arabe (The Transmission of Greek Philosophy into the Arab World), Paris: Vrin. (Contains useful information on manuscripts and Greek-Arabic texts or translations.)

Duval, R. (1970) La littérature Syriaque (Syriac Literature), Amsterdam: Philo Press. (First published in 1899, this is a detailed account of the Syriac translations of philosophical texts.)

Madkour, I. (1969) L'Organon d'Aristote au monde arabe (The Organon of Aristotle in the Arab World), Paris: Vrin. (First published in 1934, an important review of the stages through which Aristotelian logic passed in the Arab world.)

Peters, F. (1996) 'The Greek and Syriac Background', in S.H. Nasr and O. Leaman (eds) History of Islamic Philosophy, London: Routledge, ch. 3, 40-51. (Discussion of some of the important features of Greek and Syriac culture as sources of Islamic philosophy.)

Pines, S. (1986) Studies in Arabic Versions of Greek Texts, Jerusalem: Hebrew University and Brill. (The first part consists of a series of important Greek texts in Arabic translation, with valuable comments and information.)

Shayegan, Y. (1996) 'The Transmission of Greek Philosophy into the Islamic World', in S.H. Nasr and O. Leaman (eds) History of Islamic Philosophy, London: Routledge, ch. 6, 98-104. (Detailed account of how the transmission took place, paying particular attention to the Persian background.)

Steinschneider, M. (1960) Die Arabischen Übersetzungen aus dem Griechischen (The Arabic Translations of Greek Writings), Graz: Akademische Druck U. Verlagsanstalt. (First published 1889, this is the earliest authoritative review in a European language of the Arabic translation of Greek texts.)

Vacherot, E. (1846-51) Histoire critique de l'École d'Alexandrie (Critical History of the Alexandrian School), Paris. (The most comprehensive history of philosophical developments during the Alexandrian period.)

Walzer, R. (1962) Greek into Arabic, Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. (A collection of studies dealing with the transmission of Greek philosophy to the Arabs, by an eminent classical scholar and Arabist.)

"Abu'l-Nasr Al-Farabi, a Muslim of Persian descent who studied in Baghdad, was measured to be the supreme philosopher since Aristotle"

Its typical that he was no Arab. Thats what I meant, they destroyed more than they produced.
Do you think anything what Islamic states did couldnt have done the Byzantine and the Persian Empire or christian Egypt?
If they wouldnt have destroyed this countries, it wouldnt be necessary to translate the Greek philosophy from Arabic copies because the originals would still exist and in much more versions!

In fact the Arabs and Turks were just the ruling warrior class of the Islamic societies nothing more. Nothing which was produced under Islamic rule was produced because of Islam but EVEN under Islam.
Or would you say that Christian Inquisition was helpful to develop new thoughts or to bring us modern empiric science?
And strict Islam thinks like the Inquisition of the medieval age in Europe thought some hundred years ago.

In some Islamic countries it isnt allowed to see a women naked, even for women and even if she is dead! They have to look for her clothing when they wash their corpse. Is this logical, human or anything else?
Or its not allowed to picture humans or anything living. Sure there are many beautiful pictures produced under Islamic rule but not because of, but just EVEN under Islam.
Because the Moghuls didnt act like slaves of the Koran for example.
You see in this example that Mohammed was just influenced by the byzantine picture dispute and his hate of the old Arabic polytheism with his many pictures of so many gods.
Thats nothing which god said to him, he was just influenced.
I dont say the western or better say American culture of our time is so great, but Islam is no good alternative if you want a progressive anagenetic development of mankind and the survivial of man and the ecological system of this world.
Islam could handle modern problems better? I can just laugh if you think like that.

If you act strictly like it is written in the Koran you are no longer a rational human being but a superstitious puppet. Many things in the Koran are not bad, but religion isnt something you can just buy in pieces. And in the whole its something for people in a different region of different culture and time and not good for us in the 21st century.

In my opinion Islam was just the Arab adaptation of Jewish/Christian Monotheism. Maybe not that much worse but not better either.
In fact strict Islam always destroyed the rational mind of the people he betrayed. That doesnt mean that Moslems cant be rational and think logical, but if they are religious or even worse fanatics, they act like animals without thinking twice.
Only when the Islamic rule was not to strict like in Spain before the Reconquista it allowed people to think new thoughts and be rational.
So Islam was important for developments in many societies but mainly in that sence that it was better for people not to do all what some Mullahs or Imam said and think more with their own brain or believe rational politicians or scientists.

Understand me right, Christian fanatics or even worse the Jewish Orthodox/Chassidic people are not that much better than Islamic ones, maybe they are worse, but today they are just not as dangerous as the Islamists/integrists.
Therefore strictly religous Muslims are one of the big dangers for a progressive development of mankind and for the west.

Aeneas find some other place for posting long tracts on Islam.

Sorry about that Denkeas, I was refuting what christ has said. Next time could you pleas not just erase my post striate off the bat, without doing justice to all who participate in the discussion. If you believe this discussion board is not going the way it was intended then you should not censure all who participated and not just the unpopular side.

Judaism,christianism and islam are the sequels of the same religion of hatery,competing each other in fanatism and massacres in every place they were established.Look at the genocides of 7 nations in the "old testament" that jehova ordered from his people,how chistianism spread in Greece from the "saints" emperors Iustinianos and Theodosios,Catholic branch in south america,the extinction of native americans by Protestants,Islamic fanatism from 1000 until today,...

Xairetw my brother AENEAS (asalam aleikum!)
and the rest for the ignorants and hypocrites that do not practice any religion by the book (and this goes especially to the so-called Orthodox Christians) but when u criticise their religion they jump on u, ready to eat you, the cannibals.Maybe they should put more effort and time in studying and not "reading" books that belong to a different library than this of their grandfathers'.

I'm one of the Greeks that converted, or better speaking, reverted to Islam, Alhamdullillah!
I am a woman and I am very outspoken (for the ones that think they have a big tongue). I want to believe that the completion of my PHD will signify my entrance to the cycles of the "educated" ones (I'm being ironic for the ones who don't get it).AENEAS I admire your courage to put up with the rest of the people in the forum who try to prove, in a rather un-orthodox way, that they are faithfull followers of our -superior to the present- greek ancestors (just to remind some people that the legendary ancient greeks were preaching democracy and its values while thousands of slaves were working their a** off in order for the philosophers to be fed)
Whoever wants to talk about Islam is welcomed to do so under a sole condition which is the following: Study first what you want to reject in a discussion because if u don't, then there is no point in waisting our time.
My greek is better than my english (for the ones that think I'm not THAT greek). I'm from KAVALA, currently abroad, and I used to be a devout -if I can say so- Orthodox Christian.
I want to apologise for being over the top arrogant in the way I expressed myself above.

Regards,
H

Islam, you are not a Greek, since Greeks cannot be Moslem. You might speak Greek, and consider yourself to be Greek but you are not. You are simply a traitor, and I'm sure real Greeks have let you know of this sad fact.

Agaphte Dienekes, lupamai idiaitera gia to gegonos oti ka8e fora pou kaneis post mhnuma s'auto to forum epixeireis na prosvalleis xwris omws na epixeirhmatologeis. Sunepws, mporeis na krathseis gia thn parth sou apo dw kai pera ta anousia kai aneu periexomenou "asteiakia" sou.
Luckily enough, my fellow "Real" greeks, Christian Orthodox friends, have been constantly proving to me that they can be 100% compatible with greeks like me, muslims. However, my purpose in life is not to prove anything to anyone and definately I don't seek anyone's approval:)Believe me, I sleep tight at night and this is what u should also do if u feel comfortable with urself. Regarding the word "traitor", as I see that is a favorite lollipop in ur mouth, I'll try to enlighten u:)Traitor can be considered the one that admits disbelief to a system of beliefs and values that he/she has been always supporter of. Therefore, since my system of beliefs has been well grounded for long time now without me betraying it, I don't think that anyone (and especially u that u don't even know my name) can be in position of judging and criticising me.
Have a good day/night

H, Islam

Η Ελληνικότητα δεν είναι μόνο θέμα αυτοπροσδιορισμού. Έλλην είναι αυτός που θεωρεί εαυτόν Έλληνα και είναι αποδεκτός από τους Έλληνες ως Έλλην. Είναι γνωστό πως οι Έλληνες δε βλέπουν με καλό μάτι όσους αλλαξοπίστησαν, ιδιαίτερα εάν γίνουν Μουσουλμάνοι. Εσύ βέβαια μπορεί να νομίζεις πως "επέστρεψες" στο Ισλάμ, αλλά στη καθομιλουμένη, απλώς τούρκεψες.