September 02, 2003
Greek Faces (I)
Greek actress Dimitra Matsouka is a central Greek type, square-faced and straight-nosed, with chestnut hair and expressive brown eyes.
Yes, Dimitra Matsouka is a good choice for showing the face of a normal Greek woman
Posted by: Salonica City kai sas gamame to spiti at September 2, 2003 10:03 AMFinally, something on this site I agree with! Yes, this person _is_ a typical Greek female.
Posted by: Rienzi at September 2, 2003 11:32 AMShe is typical for the main racial type in Greece even if there are many others.
Typical but not average.
Looks like a central NYC streetwalker type to me.
Posted by: anon at September 4, 2003 09:25 PMAnon sounds like a central Chinaman type to me.
Got any Lapp in you, Anon?
Anon is 100% pure redneck.
Posted by: alex at September 8, 2003 05:02 PMI don't see why Anon's desire to exclude SEs is so unreasonable or surprising. If Carl Hagen's immigration restrictionist Progress Party took power in Norway tommorrow, what would SEs have to do with it? Nothing. If the BNP captured the parliament and Nick Griffin was elected PM, would it have anything to do with SEs? Of course not. The idea that NEs need SEs to assist them in preserving their kind is absurd.
Further, it should not surprise anyone that many NE racialists view as aliens SEs, despite sharing a common genotype. When a stoic, fair-skinned Swede looks at a gesticulating Sicilian whose skin is darker than most mulattos, do you think he cares if he and the Sicilian share the same genotype? If Michael Rienzi thinks showing NEs and SEs they share the same genotype is going to cause them to develop a deeply-felt attachment to one another (that has no precedent in European history), he is in for a let-down. Rienzi is committing the naturalistic fallacy if he thinks this.
The prevalence of "Nordicism" among WNs has nothing to do with Wilmot Robertson's "Dispossessed Majority," as Mr Rienzi seems to think. It has to do with attachments based on common habits, language, mannerisms, history, locality and physical appearance.
To Scot:
I agree with you when you say that Northern Europeans are not the same as Southern Europeans. I am a Southern European, I have had contact with Finns or with a few Dutch, and I am pretty certain that there are many things that divide or separate the North from the South of Europe. And that is just fine. One of the best things in Europe, it is its diversity and its cultural (and even ethnic) heterogeneity.
While I do not agree with many of the views shared by Legion Europa (particularly the borderline fascism and admiration for some sort of "pan-germanism" which is so common - I dare say predictable - in the WN sites), Mr Rienzi has at least the merit of considering all Europeans as equals. Another thing that I captured from that site, is that it seems to consider that the European Culture is more threatened than the native European "races" themselves. That is also something I also agree with.
What Anon (and his arch-menthor Arthur Kemp) promote is something completely different. First of all, neither of them _knows_ Europe (Kemp lives in the UK, but he has obviously never been to anywhere else in Europe, at least that is the impression one gets from his writings). Second of all, Anon is not separating Northern Europe from Southern Europe. He is trying to claim that everything important done by southern Europeans, was acomplished by an "imaginary" Northern European aristocracy. When confronted with paintings of several Portuguese aristocrats from 1460 (who according to him were supposed to look like Vikings), he simply ignored them (I suppose that it is easier to ignore the truth rather than accepting it).
Not only are both "gentlemen" trying to live on Southern European Glory, but they are also insulting and dehumanizing modern day Southern Europeans.
Both Anon and Kemp have been thouroughly refuted by many. I did it, and it wasn't even hard to find the evidence to do it - that shows how strong their claims are.
Posted by: alex at September 10, 2003 09:22 AMAlex, thank you for your reply. Let me first make clear that I do not subscribe to the belief that the ancient Roman and Greek civilizations were ignited by Northern Europeans. Since the only nordic elements those civilizations contained were barbarians, it's unlikely that NEs created them. NEs have surpassed SEs in intellectual pre-eminence in recent centuries, but that is not the issue that concerns me here.
I think what Anon and others like him want is to preserve, first and foremost, those members of their race who look and behave as they do. Swedes and Englishmen do not look or behave like Sicilians or Greeks. They have unrelated histories and they speak different languages. It is through a commonality of shared physical traits (phenotype), behavior, language, history and locality that feelings of racial kinship are established, not sociobiological claims. This is what I find so objectionable about Michael Rienzi and Legion Europa. Mr Rienzi seems to think that he can produce an unprecedented feeling of racial kinship among a constellation of European ethnicities by showing them that they share the same genotype as each other. This reminds me of the sociobiologists who claim moral acts are correlated with certain physiological states, or evolution. The major flaw in their argument, and Rienzi's, is that moral imperatives are *prescriptive* not *descriptive*. Moral claims imply an "ought"; sociobiological claims about morality imply an "is". So just because I share the same genotype as SEs does not mean I automatically feel some familial bond with them. The familial bond is forged through a shared history, language, locality and phenotype. In short, "Nordicists" are just ethnic particularists, and I see not a thing wrong with it. Furthermore, to think, as Mr Rienzi seems to, that the racial survival of NEs hinges on the efforts of SEs is insulting to NEs. NEs are more than capable of preserving themselves.
Posted by: Scott at September 12, 2003 04:21 PMI've never witnessed any statement by Anon claiming Nordics were the sole or major progenitors of all European civilization.
Is the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding representative of the common behavior and phenotype of Greeks? I notice they tend to have larger and thicker noses which takes away from the beauty of the face, especially for females. They seem to have more in common with Eastern Mediterranean types.
Posted by: NH at September 12, 2003 06:54 PM>> Is the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding representative of the common behavior and phenotype of Greeks?
If you want to be taken seriously, you would not base your opinion about Greeks based on a comedy.
Posted by: Dienekes at September 12, 2003 07:10 PMI need a more revealing pic to judge if she is a direct descendant of Aphrodita. Or better, her genotype. Now, boys, seriously...!
Posted by: jaime at October 6, 2003 08:45 AMScottie writes: "When a stoic, fair-skinned Swede looks at a gesticulating Sicilian whose skin is darker than most mulattos, do you think he cares if he and the Sicilian share the same genotype?"
It's obvious you don't even know what Sicilians look like if you think a normal Sicilian is "darker than most mulattos." Here is actually a "swarthy" Sicilian (Al Pacino):
http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hc&id=1800017701&cf=pg&photoid=461273&intl=us
Scottie writes: "I think what Anon and others like him want is to preserve, first and foremost, those members of their race who look and behave as they do."
Anon came in and made disparaging remarks about a Greek woman -- this has nothing to do with Nordic preservation.
Scottie writes: "Furthermore, to think, as Mr Rienzi seems to, that the racial survival of NEs hinges on the efforts of SEs is insulting to NEs."
And it must be "insulting" to you, as well, that Mr. Rienzi has done more with his life than burn out in his field at 6 months barely earning above the minimum wage.
Scottie writes:
"The familial bond is forged through a shared history, language, locality and phenotype. In short, 'Nordicists' are just ethnic particularists, and I see not a thing wrong with it."
"Nordic" is not an ethnicity; and Nordic nations do not necessarily share much in common with one another culturally. Ireland, for example, shares with some Southern European nations the religion of Catholicism -- which is why the Irish have had close ties with Spain historically.
An individual from Poland who is blond-haired and blue-eyed, and who doesn't have a flatnose, may feel as much culturally distanced from a Swede as from an Italian. Contrariwise, a Nordic Hungarian may feel he has more in common with a swarthy Italian than with a Finn.
Regarding the philosophical gibberish, it's interesting to note that someone so untutored as to think the Greek-derived term "dialectic" was invented by Hegel (a German!) even bothers to prattle on about prescriptive morality, as if to believe that he can convince others that he is not a failed "engineer."
Posted by: Blue Division at November 23, 2003 11:07 PM
There is no such a thing as a "phenotypic consciousness" in the world -- groups survive through having a deep-rooted consciousness which is forged through history, culture and biology.
For example, France is a nation with Nordics, Alpines and Mediterraneans. The average Nordic Frenchman has more in common with an Alpine Frenchman than with a Nordic Finn. Moreover, different sub-racial types can come from the same family -- one child may look "Dinaric" whereas another may appear "Alpine."
Culture, history and biology may be correlated somewhat with phenotype, but they do not necessarily intersect.
To a large extent Nordishism is an ideology based on latitude over phenotype: hence the Welsh are 100% Nordish and the Spanish come out as 1% Nordish. Yet, there is nothing "Nordish" about Catherine Zeta-Jones from what I can see. This arbitrariness is most evident when inane assertions are made as to the supposedly "Germanic" Northern Italians or the supposedly "Nordish" ancient Greeks (who are a Mediterranean/Alpine mix).
To conclude, human nature follows certain patterns and "phenotypic consciousness" (as opposed to racial or national consciousness, etc.) really has no precedence in history, hence it is unlikely to gain as a movement beyond a small, peculiar minority in cyberspace.
Posted by: Blue Division at November 29, 2003 03:28 PMBorderline fascist? Hey, I though it is obvious that it is openly fascist!
My work offends Scott? Too bad. Yes, NEs are so eminently capable to saving themselves. They've dominated the American "movement" for decades and have made it into a laughingstock. Long live Bufford Furrow, the heroic "daycare commando", right Scott? Of folks who hide out in the woods, have swastika tatoos, or other "saving themselves" methodologies. One can compare the scientific validity of my site with that of Anon and Kemp, and make judgements there also.
And Scott, not all "Sicilians" are "dark-skinned" and "gesticulating", just as not all Icelanders are slant-eyed, semi-mongoloid nitwits like "Bjork."
Posted by: Rienzi at January 2, 2004 09:54 AMI happen to live in Greece since 1990 and i can ensure you all that Dimitra Matsouka doesn't look like that.This must be one of her worse photos.She actually looks a lot better and a bit different than this and yes,she is a typical "greek face".But i guess we all know that not all greek women are not like that.There are many much more beautiful and many much more ugly.The characteristics differ.You can deffinately find more blonde,blue-eyed women in Greece than a Dimitra Matsouka style.Check out Evelina Papoulia for example or Tzeni Iwakimidou.They are considered to be typical greek faces but they differ so much!So my point is:There is no such thing as a "typical greek face".Greek women are lovely!!(trust me)
P.S:You should find a better picture of Dimitra to put on the site.She looks kinda crappy in this one!Take care
>> Check out Evelina Papoulia
Evelina Papoulia has naturally dark hair. I don't remember the other one. There are natural Greek blondes, however they are a minority ~5% of the population.
Posted by: Dienekes at January 4, 2004 10:20 PMNo actually Evelina Papoulia has naturally red hair!Go figure!
Posted by: chris at January 5, 2004 02:19 PMThe cliche of the wildly gesticulating, emotional Italian more aptly suits the Neapolitans, who have good reason because they live under a volcano waiting to blow up and obliterate their beautiful city.
Mt. Etna, in Sicily, on the other hand, releases its steam with a steady indifference. What better way for a people than to respond with stoicism?
Stoicism is the common characteristic of most Sicilians. At worst, it's a trait that often approaches fatalism - probably because it's proven to be the best way to cope with the island's countless invaders through out the centuries. (Who also provided the many admixtures of hair coloring and skin tones - it's just as common to see blondes and redheads as olive-skinned brunettes in Sicily, on par with the rest of Italy.)
Posted by: Dominic at January 26, 2004 11:00 PM