September 18, 2003
Arthur Kemp takes an Afrocentric turn
I have often commented that Nordicism and Afrocentrism are two sides of the same coin. Now Arthur Kemp, the Web's most popular (*) white nationalist historian has finally resorted to openly using Afrocentric authors in support of his thesis that "black slaves" caused the downfall of Greek civilization.
This time, Arthur Kemp has used the writings of Spanish geneticist Antonio Arnaiz-Villena to support his theory that Greeks mixed with Sub-Saharan slaves. This is what world-leading geneticists Neil Risch from Stanford U., Alberto Piazza from the University of Torino and L. L. Cavalli-Sforza also from Stanford had to say on the interpretations of Arnaiz-Villena based on the HLA-DRB1 marker [1]:
Even a cursory look at the paper's diagrams and trees immediately indicates that the authors make some extraordinary claims. They used a single genetic marker, HLA DRB1, for their analysis to construct a genealogical tree and map of 28 populations from Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Japan. Using results from the analysis of a single marker, particularly one likely to have undergone selection, for the purpose of reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in population genetics.
The limitations are made evident by the authors' extraordinary observations that Greeks are very similar to Ethiopians and east Africans but very distant from other south Europeans; and that the Japanese are nearly identical to west and south Africans. It is surprising that the authors were not puzzled by these anomalous results, which contradict history, geography, anthropology and all prior population-genetic studies of these groups. Surely the ordinary process of refereeing would have saved the field from this dispute.
Not only doesn't Arthur Kemp take the criticism of these scientists to consideration, but he doesn't even bother to see who the people who wrote this study are and what they represent.
The fact that the study was co-written by a number of "Macedonian" [2] authors and is used as anti-Greek propaganda by nationalist sites from the Former Yugoslavia of Macedonia obviously flew right over Mr. Kemp's head. But not, Arthur Kemp proudly uses sources from the FYRO Macedonia neglecting that these are likely to play this study for political interest as they do.
But let's even ignore the fact that this study is written by FYROM scientists and used for propaganda purposes. Who is Arnaiz-Villena and what does he believe in?
In his own words, Arnaiz-Villena is "forced to admit the existence of Negro pharaohs and the origin of the Egyptians among the black Africans of the Upper Nile".
Does supposed white nationalist Arthur Kemp who thinks that Egypt was a Nordic Desert Empire take seriously the "scientific work" of an individual who believes in black Egyptians and black pharaohs?"
I guess if he wants to attack Greeks, he'll disregard all the evidence against this study being politically motivated, he'll disregard the expert opinion of top scientists criticizing the use of the HLA-DRB1 locus, he'll disregard the fact that it's written by an Afrocentric sympathizer all in the interest of proving his theory which he can't prove in any other way because it just isn't true.
(*) The fact that Arthur Kemp is the most popular white nationalist historical author on the Web speaks volumes about the current state of white nationalist historical "scholarship"
[1] Nature 415, 115 (10 January 2002); doi:10.1038/415115b
[2] Greece and the FYRO Macedonia have been in disagreement over the use of the ethnonym of Macedonia. In short, the nationalist "Macedonians" of the FYROM want to "liberate" the Greek province of Macedonia, and annex it to their own state to create the Greater Macedonia. With this goal in mind, they systematically deny the Greekness of the population of Greek Macedonia. See, e.g., the map in the United Macedonians site which includes both the present-day state of FYROM and Greek Macedonia as one state.
Congratulations, Dienekes. You completely destroyed Arthur Kemp's "arguments" yet again.
I particularly agree with you when you say that Nordicists and Afrocentrists often fight together for a common objective: both want borrowed glory.
Posted by: alex at September 19, 2003 09:16 AM"The fact that Arthur Kemp is the most popular white nationalist historical author on the Web speaks volumes about the current state of white nationalist historical "scholarship"
No.
See Stormfront for (very) frequent attacks on Kemp. I haven't read Kemp, but I did read Count Joseph Arthur de Gobineau (the grandfather of the White racialist movement -- btw, the French aristocrat was a philo-Semite. Those who say otherwise have never read him) when I was a little kid. It would seem that Kemp borrows at least some of de Gobineau's themes. Incidentally, in de Gobineau's hierarchy of races, the Anglo-Saxon Aryan is at the very top. (For Houston Stewart Chamberlain it was the Teuton -- Prussian.) Both (a Frenchman and a Brit) were huge Germanophiles.
One of the mods at SF (a Brit) openly says that Kemp's "work" is of marginal value.
Posted by: friedrich braun at September 19, 2003 10:02 AMGreat work, Dienekes! It's quite funny to see certain Nordicists making alliances with Afrocentrists. This speaks volumes as to their objectivity.
Posted by: BD at September 19, 2003 12:11 PM>> No.
>> See Stormfront for (very) frequent attacks on Kemp.
Stormfront cannot be considered scholarship by any stretch of the imagination. My observation as to the status of WN historical scholarship stands.
Posted by: Dienekes at September 19, 2003 12:28 PMYou should read The Racial basis of Civilization: a Critique of the Nordic Doctrine which covers both the history of the various Teutonist-Aryanist-Nordicist philosophies and presents a thorough critique of them. Almost nothing needs to be added to that critique which was first written in the 1920s!
Posted by: Dienekes at September 19, 2003 01:16 PMThere must be fundamental differences between human groups that have been separated from one another for thousands of years. To deny that is to deny that the process of speciation occurs within Homo sapiens. So I must ask you Dinekes, what's your take on race?
Posted by: Curious at September 19, 2003 03:05 PMDienekes:
I'm not a Nordicist. You'll never find a greater lover of Greco-Roman culture. My love of pre-Socratics, for example, is boundless. However, I do favour the survival of Nordic genes, and the Nordic racial sub-specie. Actually, the Northern and Southern Europeans nicely complement each other.
Posted by: friedrich braun at September 19, 2003 03:26 PM>> There must be fundamental differences between human groups that have been separated from one another for thousands of years. To deny that is to deny that the process of speciation occurs within Homo sapiens. So I must ask you Dinekes, what's your take on race?
The process of "speciation" does not occur within Homo Sapiens. Homo Sapiens is a single species. Whether or not it will one day subdivide into new species remains to be seen. The present-day races are not the result of "speciation", they are the result of genetic drift, founder effects, as well as natural and sexual selection in different natural/cultural environments often with subsequent episodes of hybridization.
Posted by: Dienekes at September 19, 2003 04:01 PMFriedrich wrote: "I'm not a Nordicist. "
I didn't imply that you were, I just pointed out the single best available resource on the Internet on the historical development of various intellectual movements, incl. Nordicism.
Posted by: Dienekes at September 19, 2003 04:03 PM
Kemp is obviously a total moron.In his rebutal to Dienekes Kemp firmly correctly states Macedonians were Greeks while at the same time he publishes rubish from FYROM to stupid to relalize their political agenda.Even white nationalist with half a brain can see thru his lies.
Perhaps we should question Kemp's real motives.According to Kempian logic where ever negros are present whites mix with them uncontralably.And Kemp is of course from South Africa.According to his own theories his white africana must be the ultimate mongruls.
Also Kemp states Greece had aborbed all these so called black slaves when in fact records show that slaves in ancient Greece were overwhelmingly from thrace,sythia and illyria.Kemp should take a course in factual history and geography.
Posted by: Doric Greek at September 19, 2003 04:05 PM"According to his own theories his white africana must be the ultimate mongruls."
I don't know if Kemp is a Nordicist since I haven't read him (only bits and pieces, here and there).
I haven't seen anyone speculate that he's a mongrel before. Of course, it's possible.
Posted by: friedrich braun at September 19, 2003 04:40 PM"The process of "speciation" does not occur within Homo Sapiens. Homo Sapiens is a single species. Whether or not it will one day subdivide into new species remains to be seen. The present-day races are not the result of "speciation", they are the result of genetic drift, founder effects, as well as natural and sexual selection in different natural/cultural environments often with subsequent episodes of hybridization."
Oh really? Then why did all of the modern day races develop side by side inside of Africa over 100,000 years ago, before we had highly developed cultures to separate us and before we lived in vastly different environments? As far as the subsequent episodes of hybridization, isn't the onus on you to prove it? Caucasoid skeletal morphology is very similar to what it was over 30,000 years ago, so where's the proof of this hybridization?
Posted by: Curious at September 19, 2003 06:29 PM>> Oh really? Then why did all of the modern day races develop side by side inside of Africa over 100,000 years ago, before we had highly developed cultures to separate us and before we lived in vastly different environments?
Do you have any hard evidence on the "modern day races" existing 100,000 years ago, let alone existing "side by side inside Africa"?
While I disagree with Pontikos on many things, this critique on Kemp is right on the money. Kemp is an utter fool. If he likes one-marker studies so much, why doesn't he take the 70-marker ABD 2.0 test. Or he can wait a while and take ABD 2.5, which will use 184 markers. Naw..can't do that..he may find out he has more Negro blood than any Greek. As for the Nordicist retards who critique "continuously-distributed allele" analysis - what do they think the overwhelming majority of population genetics is?
Posted by: Rienzi at September 25, 2003 09:29 AMThis guy kemp is a complete racist who fails to see the whole picture but instead alters famous pieces of history to make them fit his interpretation of the world. He needs to get his head out of his butt and look around. Although there will always be racists who needs to come back to reality.
Posted by: Becca at October 3, 2003 08:38 AMSorry in my last message i made a spelling error "Although there will always be racists, he *needs to come back to reality."
Posted by: Becca at October 3, 2003 08:39 AMa young Englishman
Posted by: anonymous at January 7, 2004 07:54 PMNordicism and Afrocentrism claim Greece,because they never had any civilization(sorry).This supposed downfall of the Greek civilization is a lie,since after the classical and the Hellenistic period a greater civilization was raised,the Byzantine.As for genetics,they use everything,even FYROM(Pseudo-Macedonia of Yugoslavia).Greeks have no black genes.
Posted by: Xenilatis at March 4, 2004 06:00 AM