This is a serious question...

If the Med types are so gracile, then why are so many Italian and Greek women so short and stocky.

And they are, compared to other Europeans. Polish women are much taller and more gracile.

Northern European are tall, but rather large boned and often overweight, but I think that's due to western fast food.

The Polish population hasn't yet been (visibly) influenced by fast food. But I think that will happen sooner or later.

"If the Med types are so gracile, then why are so many Italian and Greek women so short and stocky."

Not all Mediterraneans are pure Gracile Mediterraneans. In fact many Greeks are more Berid or Med-Alpinid mixed and Italians are in their majority mixed.

And gracile doesnt have to mean slim, no, its the other way around. Many gracile women tend to fatness.
Gracile means small and gracile bones, not the soft parts. The soft parts are often softer and more voluminous.

And in general, as I said, typical Gracilemediterraneans are some Spanish or Sardish groups, not all Southern Europeans in general, even if this type is almost everywhere in the south, this doesnt mean this type is dominant in every southern region.

"Northern European are tall, but rather large boned and often overweight, but I think that's due to western fast food."

No, thats not just a question of nutrition. It is question of nutrition if they are really, really fat, but its normal that they are larger boned and have more weight than Southerners.
Same is true for Southerners if you compare them to Mediterraneans from North Africa or Orientalids.

Colder climate more
Warm climate less body weight for on average even with the same height, so far as I know.

I've had the opportunity to observe hundreds of Poles around 89-90 when they flooded Greece selling their stuff after the fall of communism. It was probably my first experience with large crowds of northern Europoids. In general body build there was no remarkable difference, since both Greeks and Poles tend to the stocky type of build, but in facial features, the Poles with their plump cheeks and roundish features gave an eppearance of a heavier bone structure, contrasting with the sharp and more refined facial relief of the Greeks.

Yeah, Poles often do have rounder faces. But I wouldn't say we were stocky.

Well, the older Poles (over 50 or 60) are extremely stocky and short. But most of us under 30 are very different.

The latest measurements by the Polish army say that Poles average from 177 to over 180cm between different parts of the country, and between different social groups. The middle and upper classes average at over 180cm.

The same report also says that Lithuanians are one of the tallest populations in Europe now. They all average at well over 180cm.

On the other hand, it says Italians are shorter than Poles and the difference appears to be genetic.

Poles are still growing at a pretty fast pace as the standard of living increases in the country, but Italians aren't.

Scandinavians have also stopped growing according to the report. They now average 179-181cm.

But the Dutch are still growing, even though they're now at 184cm!!!

Gracile/Robust:
http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/ember4/chapter6/objectives/deluxe-content.html

But, you know, if terms used in "racial traditional physical anthropology" are so vague we cannot agree on what they mean, it is difficult to make sense out of any of it. This is beyond my other objections to TPA, which are legion.

"...the Poles with their plump cheeks and roundish features gave an eppearance of a heavier bone structure, contrasting with the sharp and more refined facial relief of the Greeks."

"sharp" and "refined" are two adjectives that certainly don't automatically spring to mind when I look at the Greek immigrants in my neck of the woods. Typically, Greeks have over-sized facial features. For e.g., the shrill and annoying Arianna Huffington, she's not bad looking, but her features are typically Greek, imo.

You hit the nail in the head Frierdrich, Adriana is an excellent example of a Greek woman with sharp refined features. Here is an example of a Norwegian woman that lacks the prominent facial relief of the southern Europoids; no Greek woman can do that.

Dienekes, gimme a break.

Norwegians have much finer features than Greeks.

Greeks tend to have very large noses and bony faces.

Norwegians and Scandinavians in general have quite delicate features. In general, because there is a minority with very plump faces.

Poles are different. We tend to have rounder faces. Though our features are much less exagerrated than those of Greeks.

On the other hand, the Spaniards and Portugeuese have extremely fine features.

I think their women are amazing.

Went to Barca once and couldn't stop starring.

>> Norwegians have much finer features than Greeks.

Sure:

Norwegian
Greeks

Dienekes is correct about Mediterraneans having finer facial features than Nords. That picture of the Norwegian woman grimacing showed what no Med woman can do -- luckily us Meds to not have the misfortune of looking like THAT!

Thank God for the Mediterranean look. :)

"luckily us Meds to not have the misfortune of looking like THAT!"

If looking Nordic is a misfortune, then why did you prattle on and on about being Nordic to me fifteen months ago? Why did you tell me the posters in nordish anthropology mistook you for a Nordic, when in fact they didn't? By your own admission, you envied the Nordic physiognomy.

You strenuously denied having a Mediterranean appearance until relatively recently.

Scott writes:

"If looking Nordic is a misfortune, then why did you prattle on and on about being Nordic to me fifteen months ago?"

You have no evidence for this claim (of me prattling as opposed to talking in a facetious manner). On the other hand, you claimed to be Greek to me for months -- it turned out you thought they were more masculine than you. Dienekes is a Greek; you are not.

Scott writes:

"Why did you tell me the posters in nordish anthropology mistook you for a Nordic, when in fact they didn't?"

1 said I was a Med, another said I was Med with 40% (or so) Alpine and 10% Nordic, another said I was Alpine, and another said I was Brunn (Nordish). 2 were more or less correct but the others were wrong.

Scott writes:

"By your own admission, you envied the Nordic physiognomy."

While my German ex was a sweet girl, I wasn't a big fan of was her very pale skin and non-gracile features. Some pigmentation is very attractive on both males and females.

Scott and Blue Division, take your differences off-site.

This is the biggest bunch of crap I've ever read! I'm a white woman (blonde, blue eyes, Nordic facial features).

To state that Southern Europeans, Arabs and the such have fine facial eatures is silly. Something else you mentioned about hair framing the face...silly.

So you don't like ppl with Nordic features. Get over it instead of writing up nonsense about how the Nordic face is less refined to the Mediterranean woman’s face with the mustache, and dumpy figure.

It’s personal preference. And I have to say, I've turned more heads in my life than any southern European or Arab or the such can.

You must have an vendetta.

>> To state that Southern Europeans, Arabs and the such have fine facial eatures is silly.

Here is what Egon von Eickstedt thought:

The Mediterraneans represent, in their constitution, the most delicate and elegant, and also the most strongly pigmented of the European races. The features are more regular and harmonious than they are in the Nordics; the body, of low stature, is slender and well-proportioned, not stocky as in the Alpine race; the big and brilliant black eyes give to the face a vivacious expression.

>> So you don't like ppl with Nordic features.

Incorrect, Nordic people can also sometimes be very beautiful (*)

>> And I have to say, I've turned more heads in my life than any southern European or Arab or the such can.

Well, good for you, see (*)

the big and brilliant black eyes give to the face a vivacious expression.

true, thought about what you wrote orginally. Anything can be that way when color is more defined as for as darker highlights.

that's why women wear make up especially dark eyeliner and lipstick.

I find this quite silly, all this crap. There are pretty brunettes and pretty blondes. Nordic, Med. or Latin or Asian. I have naturally light brown hair, which I color blonde... (which 90% of Blondes are out of a bottle anyway but I accept it!)and to be honest most men or guy friends I know seem to prefer brunettes? Yes, there are men that I know that love the light hair look but I have a girlfriend who is absolutely stunning and she has dark hair and is Italian & Russian. I personally love the blonde look and sometimes I look at a gorgeous brunette and want darker hair and features, like cat eyes. I can also say I have not known the word stunning, striking or gorgeous applied to most blondes, that's a term used to describe dark hair, blondes can be pretty, beautiful and "hot", but not usually stunning.. When I colored my hair dark I turned more heads then and blonde Nordic could ever match.