June 08, 2004
Haplogroup G in the Highlands? (Not)
According to this site :
However at this time there were other groups of "proto - Celts" residing in Ireland and perhaps Shetland who carried a different Y-DNA signature, G which is considered to be a remanant of the neolithic people who arrived from the Middle East, bringing with them agricultural practices and different cultural traditions. This haplogroup has been reported among up to 20% of the clan chieftans of the Ulster and the Scottish Highlands - who claim to be of Pictish descent. According to other sources, this haplogroup, if found at all, may not exceed 1%.
I don't know what's the source for this, but it would be an interesting development, given that the Picts had a decided Armenoid cast to their features, which would harmonize with a Near Eastern origin. Today, haplogroup G is found at high frequency in the Caucasus, esp. among Georgians.
These two posts may be of interest (one, two).
PS: I'll contact the author of that page, to check up on his source.
UPDATE: I got this reply which seems to solve this mystery:
Posted by Dienekes at June 8, 2004 09:37 PM | PermaLink
Hello: If you check my site again you will see that the G has been changed to I1c. The team at Trinity College Dublin had originally thought they were looking at G, but were mistaken. Current evidence including the recent paper by Rootsi et al. changed their perspective.
I don't know what's the source for this, but it would be an interesting development, given that the Picts had a decided Armenoid cast to their features, which would harmonize with a Near Eastern origin. Today, haplogroup G is found at high frequency in the Caucasus, esp. among Georgians.
The Picts were probably related to the modern Welsh who are also dark but have high levels of Y-chromosome Haplogroup R1b. Haplogroup G in Scotland probably has something to do with the Roman conquest of much of Britain.
Posted by: Xguy at June 9, 2004 04:40 AMWelsh people are not dark. Welsh people look the same as Scottish and Irish people.
And I doubt that the Picts were Armenoid. Ive also read books that claimed the Picts had red hair. The Picts remain a mysterious people.
Posted by: 1juice at June 9, 2004 06:57 AMWelsh people are not dark.
Ever see Tom Jones or Catherine Zeta Jones?
Posted by: Xguy at June 9, 2004 07:12 AM>>Welsh people are not dark. Welsh people look
>>the same as Scottish and Irish people.
Being Irish I can say that there are at least 3 distinct types of Irish person.
1. Those who have long faces, large ears, strong chin, black hair, brown or green eyes, some frecles, fair to olive skinned - similar to Basque. Found mostly in NorthWest, West and SouthWest Ireland - Probably the indigenous stock.
2. Those with blond, light-brown or Red hair, blue or green eyes, lots of freckles, very fair skinned. Found throughout Ireland, probably of Celtic descent
3. Those of Blond hair, blue eyes, no freckles, fair skinned. Found mostly in the East - probably of Anglo-Saxon, Norman and Viking descent
Here is an image of the first type:
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/089886870X.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
Comments anyone?
Cheers
Posted by: pconroy at June 9, 2004 09:03 AMActually few Irish people have Viking, Norman, Anglo-Saxon or even Celtic ancestry (unless you are talking about the Protestants in Northern Ireland). Recent genetic research shows that the Y-chromosomes of Irish people are very similar to those of the Basques i.e. pre-Celtic.
Posted by: Xguy at June 9, 2004 10:14 AM>>Actually few Irish people have Viking, Norman,
>>Anglo-Saxon or even Celtic ancestry
When I say I'm Irish I'm referring to the Republic of Ireland, if I was from Northern Ireland - province of UK - I would have said so.
Your statement is true overall, but being actually Anglo-Irish myself and growing up in the East of the country, in an area which was colonized by Normans, then by 4 sucessive waves of English settlers from the 1600's to as recently as 1890's, I can vouch for the fact that at least 50% of the population is of English descent.
DNA studies show that males in the East are 70% R1b and variants, which cooincides exactly with the percentages in England and Holland also.
It should be borne in mind that while the Irish overall are extremely close genetically to the Basques, as are the Welsh and Cornish, and to a lesser extent the Scots; the English and the Dutch (from Holland) are the next most closely related groups to the Basques in Europe.
The ironic fallacy of most English people is that they are Anglo-Saxon and of Germanic descent, when this can't be prooved definitavely, at this point, due to lack of research on the differences of particular microsatellites on the R1b markers in Ireland and Holland. It may well be that they are largely of pre-Celtic descent.
Cheers