PDF :

http://www.geocities.com/vetinarilord/nafrica.pdf

Posted by: Melnorme at June 18, 2004 06:47 AM

"Under the hypothesis of a neolithic demic expansion from the Middle East, the LIKELY ORIGIN of E3b in East Africa could indicate either a local contribution to the North African Neolithic transition (Barker 2003) or an earlier migration into the Fertile Crescent, preceding the expansion back into Africa."

Thought Writes:

Hmmm, sounds like those Khosianoid-types actually DID migrate into the Fertile Crescent from NE Africa after all.

Posted by: Thought at June 20, 2004 10:16 AM

I always thought that the Afro-Asiatic languages didn't originate in Africa, and now we have genetic proof!

Posted by: Hamite at June 20, 2004 10:59 PM

http://hgm2004.hgu.mrc.ac.uk/Abstracts/Publish/WorkshopPosters/WorkshopPosters15/hgm367.html

HGM2004 Poster Abstracts
15. Genome Diversity and Genome Dynamics

Poster 367
Human Y-chromosome haplogroup E3b in Africa: a phylogeographic study
1Fulvio Cruciani, 1Roberta La Fratta, 1Piero Santolamazza, 2Daniele Sellitto, 3Roberto Pascone, 3Salvatora Arachi, 4Pedro Moral, 5Elizabeth Watson, 6Eliane Beraud Colomb, 1,2Rosaria Scozzari
1Dipartimento di Genetica e Biologia Molecolare, Università di Roma, Rome, Italy, 2Istituto di Biologia e Patologia Molecolare del Consiglio Nazionale delle Ricerche, Rome, Italy, 3Dipartimento di Scienze Ginecologiche Perinatologia e Puericultura, Rome, Italy, 4Departament de Biologia Animal, Universitat de Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain, 5The Swedish Museum of Natural History, Stockholm, Sweden, 6Laboratoire d'Immunologie, Hôpital de Sainte-Marguerite, Marseille, France
We explored the phylogeography of human Y chromosomal haplogroup E3b by analyzing 677 individuals from different African regions. An estimate of 25.6 ky (95% CI: 24.3-27.4 ky) for the TMRCA was obtained for the haplogroup E3b, which most likely originated in Eastern Africa. Our data refine the phylogeny of the entire haplogroup, which appears as a collection of lineages with very different evolutionary histories. The distribution of E-M81 chromosomes in Africa closely matches the present area of distribution of Berber-speaking populations in the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism. E-M34 chromosomes were more likely introduced in Ethiopia from the Near East. Haplogroup E-M78 was observed over a wide area, including eastern (21.5%) and northern (18.5%) Africa. A microsatellite-based network of the E-M78 chromosomes revealed a strong geographic structuring, with two well differentiated sub-clusters, one of which being present exclusively in eastern Africa and the other in northern Africa. A new biallelic marker (V6) was discovered in the present survey in the TBL1Y gene by DHPLC analysis. This marker identifies a subset of chromosomes (haplogroup E-V6) previously assigned to E-M35*. The haplogroup E-V6 was only observed in Eastern Africa (8.9% in Ethiopia, with a single occurrence both in Somalia and Kenya), further testifying to the richness of E3b lineages in this region.

Posted by: Thought at June 22, 2004 09:01 PM

http://hgm2004.hgu.mrc.ac.uk/Abstracts/Publish/WorkshopPosters/WorkshopPosters15/hgm367.html

HGM2004 Poster Abstracts
15. Genome Diversity and Genome Dynamics

Poster 367
Human Y-chromosome haplogroup E3b in Africa: a phylogeographic study
1Fulvio Cruciani, 1Roberta La Fratta, 1Piero Santolamazza, 2Daniele Sellitto, 3Roberto Pascone, 3Salvatora Arachi, 4Pedro Moral, 5Elizabeth Watson, 6Eliane Beraud Colomb, 1,2Rosaria Scozzari
1Dipartimento di Genetica e Biologia Molecolare, Università di Roma, Rome, Italy, 2Istituto di Biologia e Patologia Molecolare del Consiglio Nazionale delle Ricerche, Rome, Italy, 3Dipartimento di Scienze Ginecologiche Perinatologia e Puericultura, Rome, Italy, 4Departament de Biologia Animal, Universitat de Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain, 5The Swedish Museum of Natural History, Stockholm, Sweden, 6Laboratoire d'Immunologie, Hôpital de Sainte-Marguerite, Marseille, France
We explored the phylogeography of human Y chromosomal haplogroup E3b by analyzing 677 individuals from different African regions. An estimate of 25.6 ky (95% CI: 24.3-27.4 ky) for the TMRCA was obtained for the haplogroup E3b, which most likely originated in Eastern Africa. Our data refine the phylogeny of the entire haplogroup, which appears as a collection of lineages with very different evolutionary histories. The distribution of E-M81 chromosomes in Africa closely matches the present area of distribution of Berber-speaking populations in the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism. E-M34 chromosomes were more likely introduced in Ethiopia from the Near East. Haplogroup E-M78 was observed over a wide area, including eastern (21.5%) and northern (18.5%) Africa. A microsatellite-based network of the E-M78 chromosomes revealed a strong geographic structuring, with two well differentiated sub-clusters, one of which being present exclusively in eastern Africa and the other in northern Africa. A new biallelic marker (V6) was discovered in the present survey in the TBL1Y gene by DHPLC analysis. This marker identifies a subset of chromosomes (haplogroup E-V6) previously assigned to E-M35*. The haplogroup E-V6 was only observed in Eastern Africa (8.9% in Ethiopia, with a single occurrence both in Somalia and Kenya), further testifying to the richness of E3b lineages in this region.

Posted by: Thought at June 22, 2004 09:01 PM

"An estimate of 25.6 ky (95% CI: 24.3-27.4 ky) for the TMRCA was obtained for the haplogroup E3b, which most likely originated in Eastern Africa."

Thought Writes:

Hence, E3b and Afro-Asiatic originate in Sub-Saharan East Africa.

Posted by: Thought at June 22, 2004 09:03 PM

Hence, E3b and Afro-Asiatic originate in Sub-Saharan East Africa.

The research says that E3b originated in east Africa, not Afro-Asiatic. You are reading into the paper something that is not there. In fact, the abstract says that "the Neolithic transition in this part of the world was accompanied by demic diffusion of Afro-Asiatic–speaking pastoralists from the Middle East." In other words, Afro-Asiatic came from the Middle East.

Posted by: Xguy at June 23, 2004 05:49 AM

Xguy Writes:

The research says that E3b originated in east Africa, not Afro-Asiatic. You are reading into the paper something that is not there.

Thought Writes:

Actually the paper is not written by a linguist. Mainstream linguists have located the origin of the Afro-Asiatic language phylum in the eastern Sudan area.

Xguy Writes:

"In fact, the abstract says that "the Neolithic transition in this part of the world was accompanied by demic diffusion of Afro-Asiatic–speaking pastoralists from the Middle East." In other words, Afro-Asiatic came from the Middle East."

Thought Writes:

The problem with this theory is that the archaeology and linguistics do not match-up with this contrived NOSTRATIC concept. The Saharan or Saharo-Sudanese neolithic has little in common with the neolithic found in the Fertile Crescent. In the Fertile Crescent agriculture preceeded pastoralism and pottery production. In NE Africa pottery production and cattle herding precede winter-crop agriculture by 4 kya.

Linguistically, based on the principle of least moves and greatest diversity the Afro-Asiatic languages began in NE Africa (where there is the greatest diversity), not Eurasia.

The only thing this paper REALLY addresses is the primary haplogroups found in NW Africa (E3b and J). The Haplogroup J was most likely introduced into Africa with the Upper Egyptian colonization of Canaan during the late pre-dynastic era or later.

Posted by: Thought at June 23, 2004 08:06 PM

>> The problem with this theory is that the archaeology and linguistics do not match-up with this contrived NOSTRATIC concept.

What does the Nostratic hypothesis have to do with this? Get your facts straight.

>> The only thing this paper REALLY addresses is the primary haplogroups found in NW Africa (E3b and J). The Haplogroup J was most likely introduced into Africa with the Upper Egyptian colonization of Canaan during the late pre-dynastic era or later.

The paper addresses the Introduction of E3b into North Africa by Eurasian Neolithic people. Neolithic farmers invaded North Africa from the Near East.

Posted by: Dienekes at June 23, 2004 11:18 PM

Test

Posted by: Thought at June 24, 2004 07:25 PM

Thought Writes:

This paper states that 2/3 of the typical North African make-up is derived from E3b and J haplotypes. J is known to be of "Middle Eastern" origin, while E3b is clearly of Sub-Saharan east African origin. The authors give two models for the expansion of E3b in North Afica:

"Under the hypothesis of a neolithic demic expansion from the Middle East, the LIKELY ORIGIN of E3b in East Africa could indicate either" :

1).... a local contribution to the North African Neolithic transition (Barker 2003)

2).... or an earlier migration into the Fertile Crescent, preceding the expansion back into Africa

It seems most probable that BOTH theories are corect. As I have stated many times here and elsewhere, substantial evidence exists that East Africans (E3b carriers) migrated into the "Middle East" (Mushabians)during the mesolithic period (remember the Khosian/Natufian type). This concept is supported by Luis et al, 2004 :

"A more recent dispersal out of Africa, represented by E3b-M35 chromosomes, expanded northward during the Mesolithic (Underhill et al. 2001b). The East African origin of this lineage is supported by the much larger variance of the E3b-M35 males in Egypt versus Oman."

These East African colonists spread as far as southern Turkey as evidenced at Catal Huyuk, etc. :

Excavating Y-Chromosome haplotype strata in Anatolia
Cinniglu et al. 2004

"While E3b-M78 and E3b-M123 occur at similar frequency in Turkey, the variance of the former is considerably lower than the latter suggesting either temporal or effective population size differences.....Haplogroup E3b1-M78 haplotypes typify European lineages (Semino, unpublished) and have expansion dates consistent with expansion of agriculturalists."

Origin, Diffusion, and Differentiation of Y-Chromosome Haplogroups E and J: Inferences on the neolithization of Europe and later Migratory Events in Mediterranean Area

Semino et al.

"E-M78 (for which microsatellite data suggest an eastern African origin)"

This concept is also supported by Sanchez et al.

"Furthermore, the results are in agreement with gene flow from Eastern to Northern Africa from a homeland in Somalia"

and by Cruciani et al.

"An estimate of 25.6 ky for the TMRCA was obtained for the Haplogroup E3b, which most likely originated in Eastern Africa."

"Haplogroup E-M78 was observed over a wide area, including eastern (21.5%) and northern (18.5) Africa."

Luis et al

"Since the E3b-M35 lineages appear to be confined mostly to the Sub-Saharan populations, it is conceivable that the initial migrations toward North Africa FROM THE SOUTH primarily involved derivative E3b-M35 lineages. These include E3b1-M78, a Hplogroup especially common in Ethiopia (23%)..."

"The data suggests that two later expansions may have followed: one eastward along the Levantine corridor INTO the Near East and the other toward northwestern Africa."

These Black East Africans merged with the indigenous "Middle Eastern" populations carrying the Haplogroup J. This MULATTO type later migrated back into Egypt when Upper Egyptians colonized Canaan during the pre-dynastic period.

Posted by: Thought at June 24, 2004 07:26 PM

The hypothesis of Afro-Asiatic languages originating in the Near East and a Neolithic invasion are not supported by cranial or skeletal studies, mainstream linguistics, or archaeology. Cranial and skeletal remains from pre-dynastic Egypt are similar to East African types.

Posted by: Thought at June 24, 2004 07:27 PM

Y-Chromosome analysis of the Somali population
suggests the origin of the haplogroup E3b1
Juan J. SANCHEZ °
& Claus BØRSTING (°), Charlotte HALLENBERG (°); Alexis HERNANDEZ (*) ; Niels MORLING (°)
(°) Department of Forensic Genetics, Institute of Forensic Medicine, University of Copenhagen, 11 Frederik V’s Vej, DK-2100, Denmark. juan.sanchez@forensic.ku.dk
(*) Instituto Nacional de Toxicología, Departamento de Canarias, La Laguna, Tenerife, Spain.
We genotyped a total of 389 males from Somalia, Sub-Saharan Western Africa, Turkey, and Iraq by a PCR based assay with co-amplification of 25 DNA-fragments and detection of 35 Y chromosome biallelic markers with the single base primer extension technique. A total of 19 different haplogroups were identified. In Somalis, 14 haplogroups were identified. The haplogroup E3b1*(xE3b1b) was found in 77.2 % of the male Somali population, in 6.3 % of Iraqi males and in 1.7 % of male Turks whereas E3b1* was not found in Sub-Saharan Western African males. The frequency of haplogroup E3b1*(xE3b1b) in Somali males is the highest observed in any populations to date, and we suggest that the Somali male population is the origin of this haplogroup. Furthermore, the results are in agreement with a gene flow from Eastern to Northern Africa from a homeland in Somalia. In Somalis, 13.4 % of the males carried J or K haplogroups, which are found relatively frequent in e.g. Iraqis, Turks, and other Arab and Asian populations. This might reflects the historical findings of foreign trading posts at the Somali Gulf of Aden from the 7th century. The distribution of haplogroups will be compared to those in Western African population.

Thought Writes:

Here is another new abstract on this quintesential East African signature gene:

http://hgm2004.hgu.mrc.ac.uk/Abstracts/Publish/WorkshopPosters/WorkshopPosters15/hgm367.html

HGM2004 Poster Abstracts
15. Genome Diversity and Genome Dynamics

Poster 367
Human Y-chromosome haplogroup E3b in Africa: a phylogeographic study
1Fulvio Cruciani, 1Roberta La Fratta, 1Piero Santolamazza, 2Daniele Sellitto, 3Roberto Pascone, 3Salvatora Arachi, 4Pedro Moral, 5Elizabeth Watson, 6Eliane Beraud Colomb, 1,2Rosaria Scozzari
1Dipartimento di Genetica e Biologia Molecolare, Università di Roma, Rome, Italy, 2Istituto di Biologia e Patologia Molecolare del Consiglio Nazionale delle Ricerche, Rome, Italy, 3Dipartimento di Scienze Ginecologiche Perinatologia e Puericultura, Rome, Italy, 4Departament de Biologia Animal, Universitat de Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain, 5The Swedish Museum of Natural History, Stockholm, Sweden, 6Laboratoire d'Immunologie, Hôpital de Sainte-Marguerite, Marseille, France
We explored the phylogeography of human Y chromosomal haplogroup E3b by analyzing 677 individuals from different African regions. An estimate of 25.6 ky (95% CI: 24.3-27.4 ky) for the TMRCA was obtained for the haplogroup E3b, which most likely originated in Eastern Africa. Our data refine the phylogeny of the entire haplogroup, which appears as a collection of lineages with very different evolutionary histories. The distribution of E-M81 chromosomes in Africa closely matches the present area of distribution of Berber-speaking populations in the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism. E-M34 chromosomes were more likely introduced in Ethiopia from the Near East. Haplogroup E-M78 was observed over a wide area, including eastern (21.5%) and northern (18.5%) Africa. A microsatellite-based network of the E-M78 chromosomes revealed a strong geographic structuring, with two well differentiated sub-clusters, one of which being present exclusively in eastern Africa and the other in northern Africa. A new biallelic marker (V6) was discovered in the present survey in the TBL1Y gene by DHPLC analysis. This marker identifies a subset of chromosomes (haplogroup E-V6) previously assigned to E-M35*. The haplogroup E-V6 was only observed in Eastern Africa (8.9% in Ethiopia, with a single occurrence both in Somalia and Kenya), further testifying to the richness of E3b lineages in this region.

Posted by: Thought at June 24, 2004 07:31 PM

Thought:
Read up on the concept of a single locus and genetic variation over a very long period of time. Studies explicitly state which haplgroups are of direct sub-Saharan origin. You can always email a geneticist if you are confused.
On that note, Haplogroup R, of Eurasian origin, forms half the current y-chromosome pool in much of Cameroon. I guess, they are 'mulattos', huh?

As for Afro-Asiatic, it certainly appears to have originated in Africa. That paper only references the paper by Bell and Diamond. Neither of them are linguists and their paper was not supported by Ehret.

Haplogroup J was brought to Africa by 'Mulatto' middle-easterners! Yeah, that harmonizes with the dispersal dates, mtdna evidence and archaeology. Haha...

Posted by: nothought at June 24, 2004 09:03 PM

{Read up on the concept of a single locus and genetic variation over a very long period of time. Studies explicitly state which haplgroups are of direct sub-Saharan origin.}

Thought Writes:

Which studies? I have provided my sources and you have provided your OPINIONS.

{On that note, Haplogroup R, of Eurasian origin, forms half the current y-chromosome pool in much of Cameroon.}

Thought Writes:

Again, sources, sources, sources?????? I thought not!

{As for Afro-Asiatic, it certainly appears to have originated in Africa.}

Thought Writes:

Of course it does.

{Neither of them are linguists and their paper was not supported by Ehret.}

Thought Writes:

True.

{Haplogroup J was brought to Africa by 'Mulatto' middle-easterners! Yeah, that harmonizes with the dispersal dates, mtdna evidence and archaeology. Haha...}

Thought Writes:

Hmmm, how convient for you to leave out E3b the primary focus of my post!

Let's re-cap, you use selective quoting and NO sources or references. Come back and debate me when you actually have some source data to work with.

Posted by: Thought at June 24, 2004 09:23 PM